Contact With The Watchtower Society

.
There are folks at large-- e.g. Jehovah's Witnesses, et al --who insist human life is
entirely organic and does not survive the termination of one's material body. If it
turns out those folks are resting upon a false premise, their disappointment will be
very grievous.

● Eccl 12:7 . . For then the dust will return to the earth, and the spirit will return to
God who gave it.

The million dollar question is: What does God do with people's spirit once He gets it
back?

And another: Is it possible peoples' spirits are transferable to a different form of
existence than the one they have now?

Those are very, very disturbing questions; especially for Jehovah's Witnesses
because they believe the angel Michael's life force was transferred to Mary's womb
so he could exist as a human being without losing the essence of his identity; and
then when his human existence passed away on the cross, Michael's life force was
transferred back so he could pick up where he left off as an angel. Were I a JW, the
Society's thoughts about life force would make me very nervous.
_
 
.
● John 1:14 . . So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a
view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father;
and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.

The Greek word from which "undeserved kindness" is derived is charitos; which
itself is derived from charis (khar'-ece)

"undeserved kindness" isn't a translation of charis/charitos; rather, it's the
Watchtower Society's own opinion of what they think those words ought to mean.
The literal meaning is graciousness.

John Que and Jane Doe Witness are being deprived of viewing some very pleasant
aspects of the only-begotten Son's personality by interpreting charis to mean
undeserved kindness because graciousness says some wonderful things about not
only the flesh that the Word became; but also about the Father from whom the
Word came.

Webster's defines "graciousness" as; kind, courteous, inclined to good will,
generous, charitable, merciful, altruistic, compassionate, thoughtful, cordial,
affable, genial, sociable, cheerful, warm, sensitive, considerate, and tactful.

Cordial stresses warmth and heartiness

Affable implies easy to approach, and readiness to respond pleasantly to
conversation or requests or proposals

Genial stresses cheerfulness and even joviality

Sociable suggests a genuine liking for the companionship of others

Generous is characterized by a noble or forbearing spirit; viz: magnanimous, kindly,
and liberal in giving

Charitable means full of love for, and goodwill toward, others; viz: benevolent,
tolerant, and lenient.

Altruistic means unselfish regard for, or devotion to, the welfare of others; viz: a
desire to be of service to others for no other reason than it just feels good to do so.

Compassionate pertains to a sympathetic awareness of others' distress combined
with a desire to alleviate it.

Tactful indicates a keen sense of what to do, or say, in order to maintain good
relations with others in order to resolve and/or avoid unnecessary conflict.

Here's a couple of passages from the NWT where the Society's translation
committee had the academic decency to let charis/charito speak for themselves
instead of butting in to tell people what they think those words ought to mean.

"Keep on teaching and admonishing one another with psalms, praises to God,
spiritual songs with graciousness" (Col 3:16)

"Let your utterance be always with graciousness." (Col 4:6)

NOTE: The claim that the only begotten son is somehow undeserving of kindness is
of course 110% false. Worthiness is the very core of Christ's being. (Dan 7:13-14,
Phil 2:8-11, Rev 5:1-14, Rev 19:11)
_
 
.
● Ecc 12:7 . . .The dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be, and the
spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it.

The question is: What does the true God do with people's spirits after He has them
back in custody?

● Heb 12:22-23 . . But you have approached a Mount Zion and a city of the living
God, heavenly Jerusalem, and myriads of angels, in general assembly, and the
congregation of the firstborn who have been enrolled in the heavens, and God the
Judge of all, and the spiritual lives of righteous ones who have been made perfect

"spiritual lives" isn't a translation, rather, it's an interpretation of the Greek word
pneúmasi, which is a mite ambiguous. One of its meanings pertains to spirit
existence-- i.e. spirit beings --and is so translated in something like thirty-two
verses in common Bibles.

NOTE: The Watchtower Society isn't consistent with its interpretation of pneúmasi.
For example at Rev 16:13-14 they say it means inspired expressions, and at 1Pet
3:19 they say it means spirits; i.e. non-physical sentient beings.

* The afterlife is something about which I personally understand very little.
However, it's readily seen from Isaiah 14:4-20 and Luke 16:19-31 that folks on the
other side are conscious, sentient, and recognizable; plus, they exhibit human
characteristics, e.g. Abraham has a bosom, Lazarus has a finger, and the rich man
has a tongue. From all appearances, people over there appear fully human. Exactly
how that is, I don't really know. That world over there is obviously very different
than the world with which I am familiar over here.
_
 
.
● John 5:39 . . You are searching the Scriptures, because you think that by means
of them you will have everlasting life.

That's still true even to this day, viz: there are rabbis actually believing they obtain
everlasting life academically, i.e. from study. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe that
way too; and they get that from John 17:3 which says, in the Watchtower Bible:

"This means everlasting life: their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God,
and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."

The common understanding of life pertains to the nature of something's existence.
For example in the beginning God created two kinds of life: sentient life and non
sentient life, i.e. flora and fauna. Neither of those kinds life are everlasting; which
can be defined as "perpetual" for example Psalm 90:1-2 which says:

"O Jehovah, you yourself have proved to be a real dwelling for us during generation
after generation. Before the mountains themselves were born, or you proceeded to
bring forth as with labor pains the earth and the productive land: even from time
indefinite to time indefinite you are God."

In other words: God always was, He always is, and He always shall be.

In reality, the reason Jesus endows his followers with the kind of life shared by he
and his Father is to make it possible for them to relate because created life's
limitations prevent it from associating with God except on the most elementary
level. (1Cor 2:11-16)
_
 
.
Unless conventional Christians have undergone specialized training, it's not a good
idea to engage in debate with Watchtower missionaries as I can just about
guarantee that their experienced workers are better at debating us than we are
them. Should it be decided to go head to head with Jehovah's Witnesses, here's
some useful tips.

01) It's best to use their Bibles. So round up a copy of the Watchtower Society's
New World Translation of the Bible and also their Kingdom Interlinear Translation of
the Greek Scriptures. Sometimes these are available in thrift stores like Good Will
and Salvation Army. Both are available online from amazon dot com.

For some useful insights into a variety of Watchtower Society teachings, the little
brown book titled "Reasoning From The Scriptures" is a must-have. It's available
online too. Be sure to get the Watchtower Society's version instead of another book
by the same name published by a different agency.

02) Do not let these people get personal with you. You must never ever assume
they are your friends because first and foremost their primary interest is in making
you a life-long slave to the Watchtower Society. You can be courteous and you can
be civil, but it's highly recommended that you not let them into your life.

03) Do not accept their literature. They will want to come back later and discuss it
with you; thus taking control of both your thinking and the meeting.

04) Don't let them get too far into their spiel, but at the first opportunity begin
introducing your own questions; thus denying them control of the conversation.

05) Do not quarrel. (cf. 2Tim 2:24-26)

06) Avoid trivial issues like birthdays, Easter, Christmas, Christmas trees, the
design and construction of the structure upon which Christ was crucified, saluting
the flag, service in the military, etc. etc. There are much bigger fish to fry than
those.

07) Make them listen and pay attention to what you say even if you have to repeat
yourself to do it, or clap your hands, snap your fingers, or raise your voice. Do not
let them digress, change the subject, go off on a tangent, nor get distracted and/or
turn their attention elsewhere while you're speaking. If they start digging through
their bags, shuffling papers, tinkering with their tablets, or looking up a reference;
call them on it because there is no use in speaking to them when their minds are
elsewhere engaged.

08) Do not permit them to interrupt you and/or talk out of turn. Politely, but firmly,
insist that they hold their peace until you've said your piece.

09) Do not permit them to evade and/or circumvent difficult questions. They
sometimes say that they will have to confer with someone more knowledgeable.
When they do that, the meeting is over. Thank them politely for their time and then
ask them to leave and come back when they have the information. Do not let them
stay and start a new topic.

10) Do not react and/or respond to ad hominems, which can be defined as logical
fallacies in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive,
qualifications and/or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons
associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument
itself.

June 28, 2024, the US Supreme Court overturned a long held opinion so-called the
Chevron Deference Doctrine, which was basically an argument from authority, i.e. a
logical fallacy which supposes that someone's position, or their credential, makes
their views more important and/or more likely to be correct than the views of lesser
folks.

In a nutshell; just because someone is high up on the "expert" totem pole does not
eo ipso make them right. So don't let JWs get away with discrediting either you or
your sources as a means to refute your information. (cf. John 9:34)

11) These people undergo hour upon hour of training to refute conventional
Christianity, so it's very important to show them the Bible not only in ways they've
already seen, but also in ways they've never imagined.

12) Take advantage of the internet, especially YouTube's collection of lectures and
discussions relative to Watchtower Society beliefs and practices.
_
 
Last edited:
Tha:yo:nih said:
Everything that we know of in the cosmos-- all life, matter, and energy --is
composed of elements listed in the so-called periodic table. (There was a time when
every one of those elements were indigenous, but now several of them are
man-made, viz: artificial.)
Click to expand...
ALl the natural elements were included in the ball of water that GOD created to make Earth, the Moon and the planets of the solar systemm.
I have no idea at all how He arranged for the sun to have practically unimaginable masses of helium and hydrogen - but the Nobel Prize committee gave $3 million to someone who claimed it all happend at the mythical Big Bang.

However I will correct you about the natural elements and how therre are new ones.
During The Flood massive bolts of electrical energy were created as the granite/basalt crust was crushed and cracked - piezoelectricity.
The piezoelectricity occurred all over the single landmass of the pre-flood Earth.
As the bolts of electricity travelled up through the crust they converted the natural minerals into the radioactive ones .
This is how radioactive material is found all over the world.
Scientists can create new elements with varying half lifes by simply focussing electronic beams.
The carcking of the crust during Flood allowed masses of he boiling water inside Earth to blast out as the great geysers of Genesis 7:11 'In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.'
All that hot water carried dissolved gold, silver, platinum, copper, tin etc which flowed out and has been found as placer deposits for centuries while much of it was forced into cracks and held there to be mined - such as the wandering veins of tin, gold etc that is in seams of solidified quartz that was also liquid before the flood.
 
Tha:yo:nih said:
* The afterlife is something about which I personally understand very little.
However, it's readily seen from Isaiah 14:4-20 and Luke 16:19-31 that folks on the
other side are conscious, sentient, and recognizable; plus, they exhibit human
characteristics, e.g. Abraham has a bosom, Lazarus has a finger, and the rich man
has a tongue.
_
Click to expand...
Your belief is totally wrong!
The dead know nothing - so obviously cannot know what happened the moment after they died!
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes 9:5&version=KJV
Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
.......
Luke 16:19 is obviously a fable in view of Ecc 9:5.

The accounts of Abraham and the beggar, Lazarus's finger and the rich man's tongue are all fictitious in order to make concepts understandable.
 
Tha:yo:nih said:
.
Jesus spoke of thieves in the 10th chapter of John. Out west thieves that steal
livestock are usually called rustlers.
Click to expand...
When approached by JWs take the simple and effective step of quoting John 3:16 and tell them that refusing to accept Jesus is the Son of God ensures he will destroy them when he returns - if they haven't already died during Armageddon.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
Don't waste time trying to reason with JWs unless they display humility and a willingness to accept the truth backed up with Bible verses. This also applies to vast numbers of others who claim the title 'Christian'.

2 Timothy 4:3​


3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires.
 
I have more respect for Mormons and JW'S than most so-called Christians - especially the Calvinist and Funda-mental-ist whom I have zero respect for.
 
man said:
I have more respect for Mormons and JW'S than most so-called Christians - especially the Calvinist and Funda-mental-ist whom I have zero respect for.
Click to expand...
That shows how deluded you are and how little you know the Bible.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top